Adnan Oktar's live TV conversation with Masonic Delegation (22 October, 2010)

ALİ SADUN ENGİN:Good evening. Tonight we have visitors from abroad. Let me introduce them to you shortly. They are Freemasons. They came from America and other countries, from Scotland. From left to right; Timothy Hogan. Next to him James Kinslow. And next to him; David Sahyoun. They are 32nd and 33nd degree Freemasons. How shall we proceed Master?

ADNAN OKTAR: As far as I see, you are experiencing some excitement of welcoming our guests.


ADNAN OKTAR: Welcome all of you. It is kind of you to be here.



TIMOTHY HOGAN:Thank you. We are very happy to be here.

ADNAN OKTAR: We are very pleased to have you as our guests here in Turkey. We would like to host you in the best manner insha'Allah [God willing]. Meanwhile, your visit has a distinctive importance, since it will be very important and beneficial to closely see, know Islam, which is the religion of peace and love, and closely observe the lives of Muslims as practical experience.

ADNAN OKTAR: What we all want is a free, democratic, beautiful world that is full of love, distant from pressure and war in which people can live as brothers.

ADNAN OKTAR: The world is fed up with conflicts, wars, pain and crisis. From now on it is time to be brothers in the world. Insha'Allah according to our faith, this will happen within the framework of the faith in One Allah, the faith of Islam. With the descent of the Prophet Jesus (pbuh) and the appearance of Hazrat Mahdi (pbuh) a tremendous world full of brotherhood will be established and each state will be independent within itself. There will be independent republics and it will be a free world that is free of wars; even with the borders open, with no passports or visas. We will transform the world into a beautiful, merry world where children, and people will live with exuberance and joy insha'Allah.

ADNAN OKTAR: According to our creed, the person who carries the water jug, that is the person who is Aquarius [sign], that is Hazrat Mahdi (pbuh) has appeared.

ADNAN OKTAR: The name of King Messiah also appears in the Torah. The Torah depicts the appearance of the King Messiah inclusively and at length. We believe that the Messiah who will bring peace, and who will be the ruler of the world has appeared. Likewise, we believe that Jesus, the Messiah (pbuh) has descended from Allah's Sight to earth and that he is currently among people.

ADNAN OKTAR: King Messiah is mentioned as Shiloh. In many parts of Torah, for instance... It is said that "in the last jubilee the son of David will come."as in the Talmud, for instance. [Talmud, Sanhedrin 97b]

Again in the Maimonides Mishnah Torah, it reads: "He –Messiah, that is Hazrat Mahdi (pbuh)- will achieve great fame, and his reputation among the nations will be even greater than that of King Solomon." [Maimonides, Mishnah Torah, Sanhedrin 10:1]

For instance, in Isaiah 53:3, it is written: "He was despised and rejected by men, a man of sorrows, and familiar with suffering. Like one from whom men hide their faces he was despised, and we esteemed him not." That is when he first appears.

It says: "He shall not cry, nor lift up, nor cause his voice to be heard in the street." [Isaiah, 42:2]

For instance, "He will not falter or be discouraged till he establishes justice on earth." Isaiah, 42:4.

For instance, it says in Isaiah, 53:2: "He grew up before Him [the Lord] like a tender shoot, and like a root out of dry ground."

Again in Isaiah, 52:7, "How beautiful... are the feet of those... who proclaim peace, who bring good tidings, who proclaim salvation."

ADNAN OKTAR:We are now living in the era of the appearance of Hazrat Mahdi (pbuh) and the descent of Prophet Jesus (pbuh), in the End Times, which is clearly stated in the Torah, in the Gospel, the Qur'an and the hadith [sayinngs of the Prophet (saas)]. I believe that Freemasonry will take upon itself great duties in this matter and will perform very beneficial works. I believe that they will be instrumental in establishing world brotherhood and love in a way that, for the first time in the world history, will cover all over the world. I believe that in one aspect, as a distinct branch, Freemasonry will also bring great benefits.

TIMOTHY HOGAN: It is very important to us that we do build a world of peace and that we help to establish the kingdom of peace and acceptance where Jews, Christiansand Muslims can live together in peace and can be expressions of Allah and expressions from their heart.


Yes. The hadith [sayings] of our Prophet (may Allah bless him and grant him peace) also comprehensively relate that Christians, Jews and Muslims will live in abundance, peace and love. In the Turkish Islamic Union that we long for, Israel will also live in security as an independent and free state. Palestine will live freely, strong, and independent as a free state. Jordan and all Turkish states, all the region and even Russia will be free from anarchy and terror and live happily in a festive and joyous atmosphere.

There is an unnecessary tension and conflict in the world. The lands of the world are vast; they are very broad and productive. Yet, almost half or more of the revenues are spent for weapons. In the time of Hazrat Mahdi (pbuh) and the Prophet Jesus (pbuh) this will come to an end once and for all. Money will no longer be spent for weapons. The money spent for weapons will be put to the use for the poor and the needy. We see that in the hadith.

TIMOTHY HOGAN: And to us, it is very important that the widows and the orphans are protected and that the ultimately the weapons get converted into things that can help people, build society rather than destroying it.

JAMES KINSLOW:Yes, absolutely. As a Christian, the Holy Bible teaches that when Christ returns and establishes God's Kingdom, on earth, lion will lay down with the lamb. Man will study war no more.Men will turn their swords into ploughshares. And this is what we seek. And unfortunately there are people who believe that great wars must take place for this to happen. But there are many in Christianity who do not believe this. We need peace now, brotherhood now. And the Freemasonry also supports that.

ADNAN OKTAR: There are three verses in Qur'an indicating the return of Jesus, the Messiah (pbuh). Allah says in the Qur'an "He is a sign of the Hour". [Surat az-Zukhruf, 61] A clear verse of the Qur'an. It says the return of the Prophet Jesus (pbuh) is a sign for the Hour [the Judgment Day].

Allah says in the Qur'an "There is not one of the People of the Book [Christians and Jews] who will not believe in him [Jesus] before he dies". [Surat an-Nisa, 159] Allah says in the Qur'an "everyone will believe".

In another verse, Allah says "those who follow you". Muslims love the Prophet Jesus (pbuh) a lot and follow him. Because he is our Prophet, too. Christians love and follow him, too. All other people on earth will love him, too. Look, Allah says, "I will place the people who follow you above those who don't believe until the Day of Resurrection". [Surah Al'Imran, 55] Allah indicates in these verses of Qur'an that, in the last times of the world, there will be the rule of Allah all over the world.

But we are now in the stage of the system of the Mahdi. Return of the Prophet Jesus (pbuh) is the second stage. In the stage of the system of the Mahdi, Christians will practice their faith as they wish, Jews will practice their faith as they wish and Muslims will practice their faith as they wish. Atheists will also be free in their belief. That's how it is in the stage of the system of the Mahdi.

ADNAN OKTAR: Yes. For example, in the chapter Isaiah 11:2;"The Spirit of Lord shall rest upon him -Hazrat Mahdi (pbuh) that is King Messiah-, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of Lord."

ADNAN OKTAR: Now, we will see that in the 10 years' time, that is we will witness the stage of the appearance of Hazrat Mahdi (pbuh). Hazrat Mahdi (pbuh) will pave the way for the second coming of the Prophet Jesus (pbuh).

The original Torah and the original Gospel will be found. Their places are certain. The originals of the Torah and the Gospel...

The Ark of the Covenant of the Prophet Moses (pbuh). It is hidden somewhere now. It will be found too. With the holy relics in it. There will be numerous holy relics kept in the Ark.

With its disclosure, people will experience a very severe spiritual shock. It is Hazrat Mahdi (pbuh) who is assigned to unveil it. According to the Islamic belief, it is the duty of Hazrat Mahdi (pbuh). He will be in charge of finding the original Torah and the original Gospel and the Ark of the Covenant. You will hear its good news in the forthcoming days.

After that, there will be the construction of the Solomon Masjid. This will also cause a big shock in the whole world insha'Allah.

Also, the Prophet Abraham's (pbuh) mosque will be built next to the Prophet Abraham's (pbuh) grave.

And Jerusalem will be reconstructed. Jerusalem had been severely ruined. It will be reconstructed and restored into its ancient good days insha'Allah.

The entire world will be pleased with the existence of Hazrat Mahdi (pbuh).

According to our belief, he will perform prayer together with the Prophet Jesus (pbuh) when he returns.

Moreover, Hazrat Mahdi (pbuh) does not accept to lead the prayer. And the Prophet Jesus (pbuh) will push him with his two hands on his back and make him lead the prayer.

The Prophet Jesus (pbuh) will perform many miracles when he returns.

For instance, he is going to make something like a bird out of clay, mud. When he blows, people will see that thing fly. That is, it is going to be an ordinary bird.

Second, by Allah's leave, he will raise the dead, who died 3 or 4 days ago, or 1 week ago. That is he will raise the dead from a morgue by Allah's leave. Not one with skattered bones and all. I mean a corpse of 3 days or a week.

A born blind person will gain eyesight when the Prophet Jesus (pbuh) touches him. People will see this, too.

Those with skin disease, with vitiligo will heal in a short time when he lays his hands on them. You'll see that, too.

These are for people to understand that he is the Prophet Jesus (pbuh).

That would be obvious from his face anyway. From his facial expression, his manners and his clothes.

The Prophet Jesus (pbuh) is golden-red haired with a small nose and dark blue eyes. He is of medium stature with broad shoulders and he has an athletic body. There are freckles on his nose, as well as on his hands and feet.

But he will be understood from his sharp and offly clever gaze.

He will never make a mistake in his manners and behavior when talking like other people.

There will not be any doubt in people that he is Jesus the Messiah (pbuh).

He will perform the prayer along with Hazrat Mahdi (pbuh) and they will rule this world together.

Our Prophet (saas) stated that the Prophet Jesus (pbuh) will be the helper of Hazrat Mahdi (pbuh).

In that period, the only religion will be Islam on earth. But not obligatory or with pressure. Fondly, with love and wishing, people will accept this.

There will be no one left who do not believe in the Prophet Jesus (pbuh). Who do not believe that he is a Prophet.

Which means, it will spread up to the poles, it will spread anywhere.

It is true that the judgement day is close at hand. The judgement day is really close.

We are in the last stage. So it's time for the Freemasons and the Templars to perform their awaited duties regarding this.

After the end of this century, we are waiting for the judgment day to be around 2120.

Those who do not believe in my word, should write "2120" on a granite and "the judgement day" on the line under that. They will not be able to see that in 2121.

Repeating "2"s are of high importance. 2120, 2012, 22, the repeating "2"s. This is an issue in the Qur'an to which attention has been drawn.

TIMOTHY HOGAN: Just like there are 22 letters in the Hebrew alphabet.

ADNAN OKTAR: This is so significant.

ADNAN OKTAR:In brief, fear, people's fear from one another will disappear from the world. Freedom will be enjoyed to the extent of its latest phase; joy and happiness will be all over, every day will be like a day of feast. Conflicts will come to an end, wars will end. All weapons will be removed, guns will be melted and put to use in industry. There will be a happy and beautiful world. Bigotry, fanaticism and backwardness will be eradicated from the face of the Earth. And Darwinism, materialism...

ADNAN OKTAR: You haven't spoken yet. Please.

DAVID SAHYOUN:Yes, what comes to mind is... I have a very dear friend and a great teacher who just passed. And he always says if you are not at peace with yourself, you are at war with the world. From the perspective that Islam or a Muslim is someone who has surrendered to God, as Templars and as Masons, I want to add that when we come together as Muslims, as Templars, as Christians, as Jews, as brothers, we form a bridge that's gonna clear the misunderstanding. And by doing that showing that working with God, working as a fraternity that obeys God, obeys God's love and nature, we are also Muslims.

ADNAN OKTAR: I believe that Freemasons and Templars will fulfill very important duties during the descent of the Prophet Jesus (pbuh) and in preparing the world for the Prophet Jesus' (pbuh) descent. Especially after the discovery of the Ark of the Covenant, I believe that Freemasons will be greatly enthusiastic and will feel a profound love towards Islam.

ADNAN OKTAR: Masha'Allah, Masha'Allah Insha'Allah. It will be much more beautiful. It will be better. I believe in your good intentions. Insha'Allah. I also believe that you believe in the Oneness of Allah. This increases my enthusiasm.

TIMOTHY HOGAN: We hope to, just as when Jesus (peace be upon him) comes back and restores sight to the blind, we hope to symbolically work to restore sight to the blind today by helping people see God all around them.

ADNAN OKTAR: Masha'Allah. From spiritual blindness, Masha'Allah. We will Insha'Allah wipe Darwinism, materialism, totalitarian systems, communism, fascism and radicalism from the face of the earth.

ADNAN OKTAR: From 2012 onwards, there will be very startling, amazing developments. Insha'Allah. We will see this all together. That is, the portents of the coming of the Prophet Jesus (pbuh) will increase dramatically. That is, people will see the seriousness of the matter with all its clarity.

ADNAN OKTAR: Yes. Right now the system of the antichrist wants Muslims, Jews and Christians to make war with each other. We, as those siding with Hazrat Mahdi (pbuh), as the followers of Hazrat Mahdi (pbuh), we strive to thwart this scheme with all our might. And we did thwart it and we will not let such a war to happen insha'Allah.

At the same time we are also the followers of Jesus, the Messiah (pbuh). We are not only Hazrat Mahdi's (pbuh) followers; we are also the followers of the Prophet Jesus' (pbuh). Allah will provide His signs in a way to make the whole world believe; people will have no hesitations. That is, no one will have any doubts.

TIMOTHY HOGAN: When true light is revealed, you can't deny it.

ADNAN OKTAR: Yes, because there will be an honest, warm, sincere and very beautiful world. People will be amazed at themselves and think why they haven't done this before.

TIMOTHY HOGAN: We think it's important, especially as Templars, that we look to Jesus as an example of how we live our lives. And so, it's important to us that we don't just rely on Jesus (pbuh) to do everything for us but we have to step up and become leaders like Jesus wants us to.

ADNAN OKTAR: Insha'Allah. In the Gospel, Luke 22:9-10, it is said. "'Where do you want us to prepare for it?' they [disciples] asked. He [Jesus] replied, 'As you enter the city, a man carrying a jar of water will meet you. Follow him to the house that he enters.'"The man carrying a jar of water is Hazrat Mahdi (pbuh). "He sent two of his disciples, telling them, 'Go into the city, and a man carrying a jar of water will meet you. Follow him.'"Here in Mark 14:13 again, it is Hazrat Mahdi (pbuh), an Aquarius.

TIMOTHY HOGAN: Yes we agree. We're going into this age of Aquarius right now.

ADNAN OKTAR: In a verse of the Qur'an it is revealed that they save the Prophet Joseph (pbuh) by means of a bucket, in other words the bucket is dropped down into the pit and the Prophet Joseph (pbuh) is pulled up in that bucket. It is the savior, which means, there is a sign in the Qur'an that the bucket is the savior, in other words the system of the Mahdi (pbuh) is the savior. There is also a sign to the Age of Aquarius because the word in the Qur'an is exactly the bucket and that is what saves the Prophet Joseph (pbuh). It is seen that the bucket and the Prophet Joseph (pbuh) are the same, as the Prophet Joseph (pbuh) symbolizes Hazrat Mahdi (pbuh) there, but at the same time it is seen that Hazrat Mahdi (pbuh) is in the Age of Aquarius and of the sign of Aquarius. Also in the story of Hazrat Khidr (pbuh) in the Qur'an, it is revealed that the fish flies away in water and that it is all of a sudden lost in water. This indicates that the sign of Pisces and the age of Pisces are over.


DAVID SAHYOUN:I would like to add that the era of the Pisces was Jesus was born into had showed opposition a lot. And we're coming at an age of the Aquarius, where opposition is becoming unity. We are seeing that our differences should be uniting us, instead of dividing us. We are like a piece of puzzle. Unless we have different pieces that fit together, we won't see the truth.

ADNAN OKTAR: Yes. You see that the symbols of Freemasonry are unraveled step by step. One day let us contemplate over the symbols of Freemasonry altogether. Yes, please go on.

DAVID SAHYOUN:I would like to say, you build a building one step at a time. You use the tools to build it one step at a time, so until it's all complete, then you won't see all the symbols.

ADNAN OKTAR: We are able to unravel as much as we can, insha'Allah.

JAMES KINSLOW: I think it's important to realize also, just to reiterate, that Freemasonry does teach that a Christian can serve God according to his conscience, and a Jew can serve God according to his conscience, and a Muslim can serve God according to his conscience, and come together in unity within a lodge, and agree to live peacefully and joyfully with love and charity and kindness and gentleness and compassion and that the one true God, I believe as a Christian, will bring His kingdom about in the last days, and that will be comprised of many people from very different groups.

ADNAN OKTAR: Yes, when the Prophet Jesus (pbuh) comes, all problems over the world will be been solved. Islam will prevail over the entire world. We will all lead nice lives insha'Allah and live happily and in brotherhood.

For instance there is the symbol of the Sun and the Moon in Freemasonry. The Sun eclipse is a sign of Hazrat Mahdi's (pbuh) coming. Also, the Moon eclipse is a sign of Hazrat Mahdi's (pbuh) coming. For instance, the comet is a symbol in Freemasonry also. The appearance of the comet is again a sign of the coming of Hazrat Mahdi (pbuh).

In addition, Hazrat Khidr (pbuh) as you know is a person who had the knowledge of the hidden [esoteric knowledge]. He was the teacher of the Prophet Moses (pbuh). He was also a stonemason. And there is the mentioning of two children of a widow in the Qur'an. One of these two orphan kids indicates the Prophet Jesus (pbuh) and the other Hazrat Mahdi (pbuh). Because the Prophet Jesus (pbuh) will not have a mother or a father, this indicates that. As you already know, the Prophet Jesus (pbuh) was born without a father. But Hazrat Mahdi (pbuh) is also an orphan. They are both orphans in that sense. In fact, the signs of Hazrat Mahdi's (pbuh) coming is hidden in many of Freemasonic symbols. I will prepare that as a separate book.


JAMES KINSLOW: Interesting.


ADNAN OKTAR: Yes. I will explain this subject in great detail from the Torah, as well as the Gospel and the Qur'an.

TIMOTHY HOGAN: I feel fortunate to have read your writings. I really enjoy what you have to say. And I think you have some very important ideas for the world.

ADNAN OKTAR: Insha'Allah, thank you. May Allah grant their manifestation insha'Allah. Let us go to the Little Hagia Sophia Mosque once again and let us pray together, the last time was really great. Insha'Allah.

GUESTS:Yes, yes.

DAVID SAHYOUN:Thank you for giving us the opportunity to come and be here and share the information we have.

JAMES KINSLOW: Yes.Thank you very much. I'm very appreciative. It's very humbling. It's an honor to come together and promote brotherhood and unity now, before the Kingdom comes. Thank God.

ADNAN OKTAR: Yes, we are in the End Times. We are in a beautiful period. We are going to see this altogether in the year 2012 and we will meet in a completely different atmosphere in 2021. Then in the year 2022, we will pray in the Masjid of Solomon in Jerusalem insha'Allah.

TIMOTHY HOGAN: That's good.

ADNAN OKTAR: Insha'Allah, let us end our program then.


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