Mr. Adnan Oktar’s discourse with the Italian journalist Luca Steinmann (27.07.17)
Bülent: Good night dear viewers, we begin our discourse with Mr. Oktar.
Adnan Oktar: Is our guest coming? Welcome.
Luca Steinmann: Nice to meet you.
Adnan Oktar: Nice to meet you, too. You have honored us.
Luca Steinmann: Thank you very much for invitation.
Adnan Oktar: And I thank you for honoring and gracing us with your presence.
Luca Steinmann: Thank you. It is a great occasion for me also to talk as a Western journalist to you and the world and to give feedback to the world to about what’s happening in Turkey and about what’s happening in between different religions, this region and all over the world. I think this region is the center of all these situations that are touching the entire world. So it’s a great chance for me and for us to talk.
Bülent Sezgin: I would like to first introduce our guest. Our guest of tonight is Luca Steinmann. Luca Steinmann is a Swiss-Italian journalist. He is an academician in the International Relations Department of the Universita degli Studi di Milano. He works as a correspondent in the Swiss journal Corriere del Ticino. He also worked as a war-correspondent. His articles appeared in many journals and newspapers including Die Welt, l'Espresso, Huffington Post, Il Giornale in German, Italian and English. Recently he was in Damascus, Hom, Palmyra, Yarmouk and prepared a short documentary. This documentary was shown in Italy’s International Verona Film Festival. Besides it will also be shown in Locarno International Film Festival. We can watch an excerpt from this documentary.
Adnan Oktar: I see that you have carried out some wonderful and successful work.
Luca Steinmann: Thank you. This was exactly the Yarmouk Palestine refugee camp in the countryside of Damascus that has been overtaken by different groups in Syria, where I was two weeks ago. One part is under the control of DAESH group, another part is under the control Jabhat al Nusra
group. I was on the frontline of between those two groups and the government in order to report what’s happening there.
Adnan Oktar: You did such a great service. You witnessed everything with your very own eyes on the front line. This is crucial.
Luca Steinmann: Thank you. It was also very interesting for me to visit those places in which the clashes are taking a religious aspect. For instance I was around and inside the sanctuary of Sayyiddah Zaynab, of course you all know. And it’s interesting to see there how the Shia groups are fighting against or have been fighting against the troops of DAESH that wanted to destroy. So it’s really, in my opinion, shameful how this war which is like military war has been pretended to be a religious war.
Adnan Oktar: Please go ahead and ask your questions.
Luca Steinmann: Sure, like exactly about this, in Syria I have been reporting how many like people came fighting there among the terrorists and this people were coming from other countries many of them also from Europe. And this is a big question for Europe. Because Europe of course, in especially Western Europe is pretending to be spread secularism in suppose to be the first step of the realization of a secular country. But this model is facing many problems. The fact that so many terrorists are going Syria to fight is approved. So I wanted to ask you; according to you, which are the limits of a secular society and why inside secular societies people are looking so much for religious answers.
Adnan Oktar: People were raised to be loveless and uncompassionate. The dajjal took away from people the sense of love, friendship, fellowship, beauty, art and aesthetic, and left in his wake a huge mass of monsters. And they are acting monstrously.
Luca Steinmann: OK and which are the limits of a secular country and why is the western secular country is not able to give answers to these people.
Adnan Oktar: Secularism means equal freedom for the religious and irreligious alike.
Luca Steinmann: OK. But these people are not fighting for freedom inside society. Why according to you to find this radical solution somewhere else?
Adnan Oktar: The traditionalist Orthodox Islamic conception never allows such a sentiment. It is either you have your own opinion or you have to choose death. Many viewpoints have employed this or similar sentiments.
This occurs when a non-Qur'anic Islam is exercised. The lies that are told in the name of the Prophet give raise to such violence and atrocity. Executing those who do not perform prayers or drink alcohol: There are myriad reasons for execution. But no such things occur when Qur'anic Islam is practiced. Because God says in the Qur'an, "You have your religion and we have our religion." No one can interfere with the beliefs of others.
In a secular society, people should be raised to have a fear and love of God so that they are familiar with love, the love of God. Otherwise, if people who have been raised to be irreligious do not bear any fear and love of God, if they do not experience love and passion, they might become monsters - not that they will 'certainly' become monsters.
Luca Steinmann: OK, because also I was very interested in reading the last days in the Italian and European newspapers how the Turkish government has now limited the teaching of Darwinism inside school, and they moved it from biology to philosophy to show which branch it should belong into. Do you think this can be considered as a first step to limit secularism in Turkey, like this kind of secularism in Turkey?
Adnan Oktar: Biology means positive sciences, that is, the sciences which have proof, which can be proven in a laboratory. But Darwinism is a Pagan belief dating back to the ancient Akkadians, Sumerians and Hittites that asserts the universe was created as a result of a string of coincidences. I said and have been saying for five years that I will give 10 trillion Turkish liras to anyone who can come up with a single proof to Darwinism, to the existence of evolution. No one has come up yet. I merely ask for a single piece of evidence that proves Darwinism's existence. Coincidental origination is scientifically impossible. A protein requires another protein to come into existence, which means such an occurrence has zero probability. Dawkins purports that, at that case, the first protein has to be produced by aliens. This is a weak and pathetic discourse. This cannot be called ‘science’; it can only be called 'ridiculousness.' If Darwinist scientists can provide me with a single evidence, we will offer all our means to their service; I will give them ten trillion liras. I will even accept photographic evidence, but they have yet to offer such evidence either. Darwinism is a huge hoax, a worldwide deception. They are deceiving people. Physics is a science; so is chemistry, biology, paleontology and archeology. But Darwinism is a Pagan religion, which holds the belief that the entire universe came into existence through coincidences. All the ancient Pagan religions have similar beliefs; a deity of coincidence appears, Lahmu and Lahamu, and creates universe through coincidences. It is the same as what Darwin suggests. Again, in the pantheon of Sumerian pagan religions exist Abzu and Tiamat,idols of coincidence . So Darwinism can be taught as a part of pagan faiths and religions but it cannot be taught as a scientific fact, because it has nothing to do with science. Darwin himself admits, 'All our research efforts have yet to come up with any transitional fossils. If no transitional fossil is found in the next century, then it means that my theory is wrong.'
Luca Steinmann: OK, but Darwinism in the West is considered, especially among scientists like this, as the basis of a secular country. So, my question is according to the Western mind and Western analysis, if you limit teaching Darwinism, the theory of evolution in Turkey, it means that Turkey will be not so much a secular country as before. These analyses have been given. Do you agree with that?
Adnan Oktar: Being secular is a commandment of the Qur'an. The verse of the Qur'an clearly states, 'There is no compulsion where the religion is concerned.' The verse 'You have your religion and I have my religion' is also an explicit summary of secularism. Islam does not interfere with anyone's belief. But, of course, the traditionalist Orthodox Islamic conception does. It even goes as far as to kill, to execute people; it commits all sorts of atrocities. What the West should do is to promote the Qur'anic Islam, modern Islam.
Luca Steinmann: OK, and nowadays, whose the true Islam according to you; can this be like the Turkish government?
Adnan Oktar: Mr. Erdoğan shares our views. That is, he is an advocate of the Qur'anic Islam. But of course, he is virtually surrounded by traditionalist Orthodox Muslims. He is currently trying to maintain a balance. But he openly stated, 'I am neither a Sunni nor a Shiite; I am a Muslim of the Qur'an'. What more can he say? There are hundreds of thousands of traditionalist Orthodox Muslims in Turkey. It is hard to achieve a balance with them, the traditionalist Orthodox Muslims. The Turkish people have just begun to understand Qur'anic Islam; it is a fairly recent occurrence. This is what we call 'the system of Mahdi” and what Judaism calls 'Moshiach'. Moshiach and Mahdi is the same person. In other words, right now we are in the age of the Mahdi. Islam will prevail throughout the world in the form of the Qur'anic Islam, through love, compassion, science, art and culture, and by uniting with the Christian world, allying with the Christians, and of course the Jews. Islam will dawn upon the world as an immense new cultural movement and civilization against atheism and Darwinism. Any Christian that says Prophet Muhammad did not tell lies is a Muslim. Any Jew that says Prophet Muhammad did not tell lies is a Muslim.
Luca Steinmann: OK, you said something really interesting that Islam will be prevailing all over the world, Qur’anic Islam. And this kind of idea of exporting Islam has been a tradition of the Ottoman Empire. I’m thinking of Abdulhamid, when he was saying pan-Islamism is the only way to save the empire. I’m thinking of Muhammad the Fifth when he entered the First World War, saying that this was a holy war of Islam. So is there a mission also in today’s Turkish Government in being a reference for all the Islam in the world and is there a mission of exporting this kind of Qur’anic Islam?
Adnan Oktar: Abdulhamid was the person who eliminated pan-Islamism. He was a fervent Darwinist. He distributed hundreds of thousands of Darwinist books all across the Ottoman Empire. He ceded 1.5 million kilometer squares of Muslim territory, Ottoman territory. He authorized the opening of brothels throughout the empire. He also allowed wine and raki factories to be established. As you may know, these are in total contradiction with Islam. Gambling thrived under his state interventions. As you know, gambling is also deemed unlawful in Islam. During his rule, beer production reached 10 million liters by means of the Bomonti beer production facilities, 340 million liters of wine were produced throughout the Ottoman Empire by way of Abdulhamid. Abdulhamid was not a pan-Islamist; on the contrary, he tore the Islamic world asunder through the influence of the British deep state. But he fell victim to the machinations of the British deep state. Personally I think of him as a poor soul, who suffered terrible under the British deep state; he was a victim and I pity him. This is why I call him a poor soul. I do not say so with the intention to belittle him. He appointed Darwinist statesmen in all vital positions. He distributed scores of Darwinist books as far as Mecca and Medina. Only our President Mr. Erdoğan advocates the Qur'anic Islam. But we cannot say the same thing for all the ministers, etc. But Tayyip Erdoğan is indeed a genuine Muslim, that much is true. Tayyip Erdoğan is an honest person. Those who dislike him can visit me here to discuss this issue. They can express all their objections and I can give an answer to every single one of them. Mr. Erdoğan is a modest, sincere person; he is not the person he is presented to be. His only crime is that he does not submit to the British deep state and that is all. Of course, this is a crime in the eyes of the British deep state; we see it as an honorable, commendable quality.
Luca Steinmann: OK, but still if he as you told me he is really giving this interpretation of the Qur’an while he is he functioning as a president and also the one spreading this interpretation of the Qur’an outside Turkey and for instance in Europe, this is a very relevant question for European readers and listeners.
Adnan Oktar: I would not say so, but I think that he is, in a way, a Mahdi; but a political Mahdi at that. He does not carry the mission of preaching religion, Islam. He advocates peace, brotherhood, altruism, the protection of the downtrodden, unity among Muslims, and a harmonious life shared by all Christians, Jews and Muslims: That is his mission. But he does not come out and preach his mission like a Mentor, a Mahdi; he cannot do so anyway, as ours is a secular republic. Only [private] individuals can do that.
Luca Steinmann: And this is also interesting because in some speeches he addresses European people not only the Turkish people living in Europe but to Muslim people living in Europe in general who are also non-Turkish. So, this is also an important question according to me. Does being Turkish mean being Muslim or not?
Adnan Oktar: It does not. We have many atheists among the youth. I have many atheist friends, whom I love dearly. I also have many friends among the Christian and Jewish community. My rabbi friends from Israel visit me here quite frequently. I love them deeply. I have Mason friends, some of whom are atheists and Christians. I love them very much, too. I do not judge people by their beliefs.
Luca Steinmann: And what about those Turkish people moving to Europe? There is also big debate about Turkish people and Muslim people, if they should be integrated completely in the European society in which they found themselves? Like if they should renounce to their religious beliefs in order to enter European or Western values, if they have to forget their original nationality in order to identify themselves in the new country they are? What do you think? I was talking with many Turkish people in Germany for instance and most of them still feel Turkish even if they were born in Germany and they are proud of it. So how do you explain this?
Adnan Oktar: This is normal. Assimilation is not a reasonable, logical thing. It is not becoming of a person. Of course, they will preserve their beliefs, customs and traditions.
Luca Steinmann: So, this is bringing too many new elements inside the European society. Because if so many different beliefs and so many different identities are coming to Europe and they want them to give them up, but the people want to keep them. Well this bring too many separate societies sharing the same ground. And who according to you can guarantee the pace between the groups? Which guarantee is there for this?
Adnan Oktar: If everyone adopts a meticulous approach regarding their religions, this will no longer be an issue. In other words, if Christians become true Christians, if Jews become true Jews, if Muslims become true Muslims, then it means that all of them are Muslims. Thus, they will easily live together as brothers and sisters. It is Moshiach Mahdi who will achieve this.
Luca Steinmann: But who can give this guarantee? Because I mean I see, for instance, in Germany now or in some other European countries that those communities are left by themselves. They don’t recognize, for instance, the moral authority of their own state in which they live. And at the same time they look for an answer in a belief where they don’t know who’s teaching them. So like which guarantee do you have that this search of identity and this search of belief would not take any deviation?
Adnan Oktar: They should pledge loyalty to the state. For example, a Muslim living in Germany has to obey German laws. And a Muslim living in Italy has to obey Italian laws. Rebelling against the state is sedition.
Total loyalty will be achieved by Mahdi. Soon, Europe will start seeking out Mahdi and Jesus Messiah. I believe that both of them are currently on earth.
Luca Steinmann: OK, I wanted to make an example to show how difficult this process we’re talking about is. This example is the German state. OK. Germany is not offering any strong own identity to the newcomers to the new immigrants. Why? Because of its historical background Germany still fears what happened in the past and still fears comparisons with Nazi Germany, with the holocaust. So, they don’t want to be the one offering a strong identity to the new people coming. And they are kind of trying to make an experiment. They say, we provide to these people a job, a good economic situation and integration will work through these aspects. Don’t you think that it can be dangerous because we’re seeing that so many people now in Europe are also looking for some other questions? Somehow, Huntington was talking about the rebirth of God in terms of people looking for deeper questions just for economic success. Isn’t it a dangerous experiment according to you?
Adnan Oktar: The world is headed towards a considerable tension and dissension. Only the Mahdi will be able to prevent this. There has been a great buildup of tension. This will come to an end by the efforts of the Mahdi. Those who scoff at the system of Mahdi for now will soon depend on it. Those who scoff when the subject of Jesus Messiah comes up will soon depend on him. They will become miserable before the might of God.
Luca Steinmann: OK. We, like for instance in Europe, we’re seeing how the Turkish people are often bound to their religion and they see in President Erdogan often an important reference OK? So my question is if they are looking for a religious answer and president Erdogan has such a deep influence on them, can this not bring him to took also a religious dimension and to make religious speech towards these people that are Turkish sons?
Adnan Oktar: No. Mr. Erdoğan is a typical son of Anatolia. He is a modest Anatolian fellow; he is not an ambitious man. But he underwent a religious education. He is a sincere practitioner of religion. But he has never come forward with the claim of being a religious preacher or scholar. He has never made such a claim. He only said, “I am a Muslim following the Qur'an”, that is all. There have been numerous attempts to martyr him; they attempted to raid his house, the Prime Ministry building, they tried to shoot him in his summer house. They seek to topple our government, bring our country down. And he is protecting himself in self-defense. Despite all the circumstances, he acts very democratically. Providing refuge for three million refugees who fled Syria is an indication of his believer, Muslim, God fearing, conscientious personality. He accepts Syrian refugees, even though Turkey is going through a rough economic patch, when no other country does. This signifies compassion and love. Will you be in Turkey tomorrow?
Luca Steinmann: Me? Yes.
Adnan Oktar: Then let us continue tomorrow.
Luca Steinmann: Sure.
Adnan Oktar: Alright.
Rest easy, for you will witness the coming of Jesus Messiah and the Mahdi, you will witness the salvation of mankind. The earth and the heavens are shaking in foreboding of the major events to come. Let us meet tomorrow.
Bülent Sezgin: We thank our guest for his participation. We will continue with short videos.